In D&D, liches (including dracoliches) have a paralyzing touch. As described, these are supernatural, untyped powers. In the rest of the game, paralysis effects are usually compulsions (e.g. hold person) and hence enchantments, or necromancy effects (and probably also fear).
I ask, because my group fought a dracolich and nearly got our asses handed to us by its six Fort DC 26 paralyzing attacks per round. In our group, we had a rogue with the slippery mind ability (giving a benefit useful against enchantments) and a paladin (immune to fear), so it was pretty crucial to know whether in fact the paralyzing touch was implicitly typed, and what type it was.
We ended up running with it as a compulsion, but in the absence of textual evidence, it's unclear. Note that in principle, all magical effects have to be typed. What do you think?
I agree in principle. However, this runs into problems in a theoretically infinitely expandable system. How can you account for all the new types that will arise from time to time? Or do you simply say that much like the taxonomy of monsters, there are a finite number of types and every new effect will fall into one or another of them?
Judging from the SRD lich it's a necromancy effect similar to the curse spell, and is neither fear nor a compulsion (enchantment). Basically it renders you dead, but you're not quite dead.
HW: if by "types", Greg means "schools", then everything has to fall into an existing school (although I wasn't aware this applied to supernatural abilities, I somehow thought it was just spells and spell-like abilities). They don't make up new schools in the books-of-more-plusses, for instance.
Jason is, as usual, generally right; I was talking about schools of magic. Even supernatural abilities have to be typed, since, e.g., you can cast detect magic on the victim of a supernatural ability, so you need to be able to tell what type of effect it is.
Also, for the lich in particular, I would tend to agree that its paralyzing touch is a necromancy, no subtype, effect, and curse subtype if you're using a curse subtype. However, the dracolich ability is at least qualitatively different, most notably in being short duration instead of permanent (we saw 2-10 rounds, for example). I would be perfectly happy with a ruling that it was a necromancy, no subtype, effect, too, but it's not a curse.
See also the paralysis special ability. Pretty much all enchantments have to be Will saves, so this kind of paralysis is probably not a compulsion. We're back at necromancy, or maybe transmutation.
Since it was a Fortitude save, I'd say it follows the paralysis special ability, and since it is caused by an undead creature, I'd default to it being a necromantic effect.
Ghouls also paralyze; interesting, this is an Ex ability, rather than Su, but it also requires a Fort save. The spell ghoul touch, which mimics the ghoul's paralysis ability, is necromancy.
As an aside, I am at a loss for why a ghoul's paralyzing touch is extraordinary, and not supernatural.
I am annoyed by that SRD description of the paralysis special ability, because the SRD lich has paralysis, but clearly you can't be "rooted to the spot" under lich paralysis, you must collapse, because otherwise it wouldn't take a Heal check DC 15 to tell that you weren't dead.
nearly got our asses handed to us
Nearly? Dude, we totally got our asses handed to us. The only thing worse would've been actual death.
My gut reaction was to say it was untyped. If you had to assign a school, it would have been Necromancy. The fact that it was a Fort save told me it really wasn't mind affecting, fear or compulsion. Yet I allowed Slippery Mind to work anyway.
What that says about me is that my initial reaction to most player questions has become No, and I am trying to fight that. Nick had just picked up Slippery Mind, and although I didn't think it applied, I let it anyway to give y'all more of a decent chance, since the encounter was so tough to begin with.
Really, what I should be doing is going to neither extreme. I really should not have allowed Slippery Mind to work. But I also should not view as many player questions so negatively as I have been. I just feel like so many encounters in this campaign severely bone the players, and this one time I was trying to give you back a little hope.
In the end, of course, Kaya pretty much killed the dracolich all by herself. Briz did some damage, and everybody sucked up attacks, which was actually pretty crucial. But the dracolich would likely have been better off just attacking Kaya over and over until he had paralyzed her, and then just killing her. But what fun is that?
Oh, and Greg failed to mention that it also has a paralyzing gaze attack, also Fort DC 26.
As noted, it would have been a very different encounter had K actually been playing her paladin and scanned the room with detect evil before going in. Player inattention is one of the things that's boning us.
Of course, the whole of the frozen city was designed to do nothing but dick with the players. Scout and the scout gets ambushed; don't scout and the party gets ambushed. Everyone in the city can hear the party coming and somehow knows that they need to turn all their buffs on. But for the party: Don't buff up before you go in and you get clobbered. Buff up before you go in and it's an empty room. The enemy can move freely through the room; the party takes damage moving. Gah!
Next time around: overland flight on Kaia and see invisibility on Eian before we start the day's adventuring; winged boots on Bryzgalov; wand of augury for Meriel, and she takes greater dispel magic. And maybe a few other things.
As I understand the shape of the room and the position of the monster waiting in ambush, Detect Evil would not have revealed its presence. As for player inattention, you were the one who walked into the ambush after the player sitting next to you said, "Here dragon, dragon, dragon."
Actually, on second thought, detect evil wouldn't have differentiated between the pillars and the dragon.
I would also argue that A could have asked for a Listen check (at least from me) before surprising the party. I'm not strolling around all oblivious with my iPod on, I'm scouting. The dragon's out of range of my sight, no problem, but he's not out of range of my ears.
And after all, the point of me scouting into the room is to detect the enemies.
In my own defense, the dragon had several rounds of warning (Alarm spell) while the party was down the hall, noisily chopping through ice lattice, about 40+ feet away and through a thick metal door. And the dragon had a Move Silent check of +20. Once the door was open, the dragon was no longer moving - it was clinging to the ceiling waiting in ambush. And the reason it buffed up at all is that nobody ever comes to its lair unannounced.
And as for scouting into the room, you just walked in to the room. No precautions were taken, and when I described the room as a big sphere, nobody even mentioned looking up toward the big dark ceiling.
Oh, how the player whinging never ends. ;)
Let me just say, next time, don't describe the room, leaving out the dragon standing on the ceiling, but including the giant evil pillars of evil stretching up to the ceiling, and then tell us we can't see what you just described because it's dark. Kinda prejudices the issue of whether or not there's a dragon standing on the ceiling.
Also, I'm keen to know how Abradius announced himself to the dragon; he can't walk through the ice lattice any more than we can, and d-dooring into the room is pretty much the epitome of "unannounced".
Is this a real campaign or are you guys playing Munchkin? I can't tell the difference.
You are too funny. Ha. Ha.
Why am I taking this bait? I don't know - but I am.
I blew it with the lighting situation, I admit. But this was literally the only room in the entire complex that was unlit. But even if I had said it was dark initially, the dragon was above the view from the door.
As for Abradius, he simply knocks on the door and asks permission to enter. Nothing mysterious about that. And the ice lattice is more of an inconvenience than a serious danger.
What level is the party now, out of curiosity? Is this still the Shackled City adventure path?
12th and 13th level. Still on the Shackled City path.