This may end up being a bit rambling. Also, it contains spoilers for Death of the New Gods.
Over here, in a comment, Scipio (of the Absorbascon) has this to say about the death of Big Barda:
I was very impressed by Barda's death, because it was out of character.
Barda, dying a big glorious death in a big glorious fight scene, after uttering some poignant farewell to Scott? Sad, but obvious.
Barda, having her heart ripped out off panel with no fight, there at the very hearth of her home? Tragic, and clever.
I haven't read the issue, so I'll take it as given that the scene is as given here.
I will phrase my first point as a question: Why are Big Barda's fans (who do exist) not entitled to see their hero going out heroically, gloriously, and poignantly?
No, really. In a universe where every character is somebody's favorite, why not let all the heroes go out heroically? Who benefits when a protagonist goes out like a punk?
"Sometimes people just die. Sometimes heroes don't die heroically in battle. It's a nice touch of realism." That's a kind of response I've heard over and over again, and it makes the bile rise in my throat. We can dismiss any pretense of realism outright in a genre with magic rings and force fields, but I'll concede that giving every dead protagonist a suitable sendoff makes the collective body of work more simplistic and juvenile. So what? The readers you stand to lose because you're simplistic and juvenile, you're going to lose eventually, inevitably, because it's a goddamn serial superhero universe, and its very spine is built around satisfying urges that those readers reject.
And in the meantime, trying to hold onto readers who are trying to outgrow you just means that you lose readers who aren't trying to outgrow you. Like me, for example; I've talked before about how the DC universe has lost me this time for good. Back when "Whatever Happened to the Crimson Avenger" was the rule of thumb, when golden statues commemorated the world-saving sacrifices of fallen Legionnaires, I was fuckin' delighted to be reading superhero comics. Nowadays, there's fuck all to be delighted about.
But anyway. Isn't it just like modern superhero comics to leach the drama out of a scene by having it happen off-panel? It's nth-Age genre storytelling, with the underlying thought "we've seen a thousand death scenes, let's shake up the storytelling by having it off-panel, with just the reaction shots on-panel". That's a death-spiral for a genre, because it's storytelling that only works for people who are fully experienced in the genre. New audience for a genre can only come in in large numbers for stories that work even if you're not familiar with the genre. Having the plot beats happen offstage means you're counting on the audience to fill in the blanks, which means you're counting on an audience that can fill in the blanks.
Now, Scipio does have a point worth considering, which is that Barda fought all her life for the opportunity to live a normal life, and so it's not exactly empty to have her die in her kitchen, at the center of the life she fought for. The problem is in the "with no fight" part. For all that Barda wanted to escape the Apokoliptian lifestyle, she never wanted to stop being the warrior woman at the top of the heap that the Apokoliptian lifestyle made her. Yes, she wanted the suburban split-level, but she never rejected the fight. You want Barda to die in the place she fought to reach? Then let her fight for it. Superhero comics enable the concretization of metaphor like no other genre.
But, really. Death of the New Gods? Everything I've said is already implicit in the book's title and mere existence. Would that they have jumped straight to Inevitable Rebirth of the New Gods.
Posted by Greg at November 2, 2007 11:45 PM
In this week's "DC Nation" page, Dan DiDio says: "...while we may be closing the book on the Fourth World, fear not: soon, very soon, I will be able to tell you more about FINAL CRISIS and the coming of the FIFTH WORLD."
There are exactly two people in comics today who I would trust to do the Fifth World, and they're both British, and the three of us share the first two letters of our last names.
J.H. Williams on art, on at least one of the books, probably Forever People.
Maybe Pacheco on Superman in Supertown, and Perez on The Fifth World.
Three 160 page books.
If I were in charge of the universe.
I'm just wondering what the heck could rip out *Big Barda's* heart?
Korvar -- the same thing that ripped out Lightray's heart in Countdown and the Black Racer's heart in Death of the New Gods and whoever else they've killed. I know i'm supposed to be intrigued, but mostly I'm bored. "Oh, they're killing the New Gods? Whatever. Let me know if there's an interesting creative team when they bring them back."
As for Greg's suggestions, Morrison's take on Mister Miracle in Seven Soldiers left me cold and while I'd love to read Moore's take on them, I see that as only slightly more likely than William Shakespeare doing the New Gods.
Anyway, I actually picked up the first issue of the current mini because I thought Starlin doing the New Gods could be fun. It wasn't particularly interesting, so I don't feel any great compulsion to pick up subsequent issues.
I believe it was Dan Didio's fist, wrapped in the strands of Stan Lee's old toupees.
Ladies and Gentlemen, please forgive the bluntness of my reaction, but...
You just killed the DC character upon whom I've had an immense crush for most of my adult life.
Screw you, DC.
I think it's a mistake to look at the death of Big Barda in isolation. Yes, it's stupid and disrespectful and stupid again, but I think the Black Racer's death was even worse. The narration was meanspirited and wrong, and I'm going to need more than shadowy figures in the dark to convince me that killing Willie Walker would even affect the Black Racer.
The whole concept is flawed and stupid. You don't kill gods off panel in a murder mystery, you do ragnarock.
Imagine if they'd got Walt Simonson and said "you know that run you did on Thor? We want like that only with the proper ending."
Well, it did cheat those of us who love Big Barda. But in all fairness, two male characters died in the same issue the same way.
Great commentary, Greg. I haven't read this story, mainly because... well, mainly because the only person truly qualified to put the final touches on the Fourth World would be the guy who created it.
And I'm definitely with Marionette on this, from the Black Racer point to the last- Ragnarok. Armageddon. That's how you end the New Gods. Not some drippy, cliched murder mystery nonsense.
Have to agree with all the comments on the manner of Barda's Death.But as this is a mystery tale-shadowy death's it is.
Slight spoiler
Slightly better than just being a poster on a wall behind Takion with the word deceased on it-Lonar and Fastbak-in issue 2.If their deaths were shown somewhere apologies
brian
I too had a crush on Barda for a long time. However, I believe Jim Starlin is telling a decent enough story.
I also believe, like most of you, that the New Gods will be returning in some form at the end of this.
The thing that would make the most sense, especially with the missing souls, is tying this is in to what we saw of the New Gods trapped in human form in Morrison's Mr. Miracle mini-series.
They can also take the same approach JMS is doing with Thor at Marvel. They have said in interviews that one New God is surviving. Presumably that one gets to go on the quest to bring the others back in a couple of years once Final Crisis is done.
I lost my outrage over comic character death years ago. If you are taking works of fiction so seriously that they upset you that much, you probably need to take some time off and distance yourself from them to get your perspective back. I've had to do that a couple of times myself over the years.
The best way to get even is through apathy, not outrage. It's the comics that bore people that get cancelled.
I will phrase my first point as a question: Why are Big Barda's fans (who do exist) not entitled to see their hero going out heroically, gloriously, and poignantly?No, really. In a universe where every character is somebody's favorite, why not let all the heroes go out heroically? Who benefits when a protagonist goes out like a punk?
"Sometimes people just die. Sometimes heroes don't die heroically in battle. It's a nice touch of realism." That's a kind of response I've heard over and over again, and it makes the bile rise in my throat. We can dismiss any pretense of realism outright in a genre with magic rings and force fields, but I'll concede that giving every dead protagonist a suitable sendoff makes the collective body of work more simplistic and juvenile. So what? The readers you stand to lose because you're simplistic and juvenile, you're going to lose eventually, inevitably, because it's a goddamn serial superhero universe, and its very spine is built around satisfying urges that those readers reject.
YES THIS.
Putting on my Law & Order hat, if she died without a struggle, does that mean the killer was someone she knew and trusted?
It's worth remembering that the Absorbascon blog pretty much exists as an ongoing apologia for the Didiotized DCU.
Given, among many other examples, Scipio's intense and oft-stated dislike of the new Aquaman in favor of the Silver Age one, I think that's a bit of a distorted view, John.
What is worth noting is Scipio's stated dislike for the Fourth World characters and Kirby in general, though he also uses hyperbole for (intended, anyway) humorous value.
The only reason I am reading this book is because of Starlin. At this point, I have given up on getting DC books with good ideas. I settle for stupide and crass done well.
Mind you, that will not keep me in forever. I have said it elsewhere, and I will say it here. DC has exactly 25 weeks to change my mind on this. They need only publish one, consistently good, ongoing book. Just one. "Countdown" (and that is what "Death of the New Gods" is) is a hell of a ride to the bottom. But, I am only taking it once.
I am not a fan of the New Gods. (I am just under 30, so put that down to a generational thing.) I do not even mind the "murder mystery" angle. But, I do mind the fact that I have no reason to expect this "never be the same evereverever again" story to stick for more than a year, which in comic time works out to a month or two.
You know what? I hope they bring Barda and co back, in the stupidest possible way. I hope they end Countdown/Final Crisis in the most over-hyped, vapid and dis-jointed manner possible. I want cheap gimmick covers. I want messy and cumbersome cross-overs. I want to find at least one mains-stream book I really truly like, and to have it moronized inside of a year by Didio. Heck I do not even care who ruins it, so long as it is ruined in a way to retroactively ruin everything I enjoyed before hand.
Why? Because DC (and Marvel) have taught me to expect these things over the years. I have *hated* Spiderman since the Clone-fest. I have been unable to buy a single Marvel book for about 2 years now. If I cannot have good comics, I at least want the comfort that comes with having my expectation met.
Dom
-finds himself agreeing with Superboy/man/thug Prime more and more with every passing week.
Actually, the fact that Scipio doesn't like it is probably one of the best reasons to like The Savage Sword of Aquaman.
I actually enjoyed the post-52 Aquaman (both under Busiek and under Williams), but I think it's been cancelled, so it's sort of a moot point.
I liked it too. I actually liked Busiek's version more than Williams; it got me to pick up Aquaman regularly for the first time. I was just pointing out that Scipio isn't always a "DiDio DC Booster."