Well, it is the Avengers. Not many 'classic' picks in that team's history that aren't White Guys. Fewer still that don't come with way too much backstory for an ensemble superhero movie. You could throw Wasp in with Ant-Man as a team, but then the writers would be tempted into recreating wife-beater Pym and having him take over the entire script.

Maybe they could recast Rick Jones as a black woman...

Who do you want to kick off in the name of political correctness to match your quota system?

That list -- plus the Wasp, who should be included -- is the classic Avengers line-up, more or less. It's the line-up from the Ultimates. It's not as if some movie producers got together and said "Hey, I know -- let's make a movie with a bunch of white males"; this is a particular gang of white males with a 45 year pedigree, and I'd hate for them to add Black Goliath or Black Panther or Captain Marvel (the roger Stenr version) just for the sake of having some non-white faces in there.

Besides, only two of the five heroes listed above have been cast (and one of them has already been recast once in this decade). Don't be so quick to assume they'll all be played by white actors.

I'm a lot more concerned with the fact that the movie's being written by Zak Penn, whose last two contributions to Marvel Moviedom, "X-Men 3: The Last Stand" and "The Incredible Hulk" were pretty rotten stinkers.

Wasp, Ms. Marvel/Warbird, She-Hulk, Scarlet Witch, Black Widow. You could almost fill out a roster with Women who've led the Avengers.

Now, the idea of turning Rick Jones into Grace Jones has it's appeal...

Although I may brand myself a heretic, I haven't seen Iron Man yet, but based on what I've read online, isn't Samuel L. Jackson supposed to be involved as Nick Fury in an Avengers movie?

Doug: Yes, and that's a good point. (However, to continue my sarcasm, he's not in costume, so I'm still right.)

I can understand and more or less tolerate why a solo superhero film has a white guy in the lead. There's character history to match and social expectations to live up to and stuff like that. But the Avengers movie is basically teaming up five such solo superhero white male leads (quite literally; Marvel has, or is working on, films with all five characters); it's at that point that my bile rises. It's at that point that I expect the producers and creative people to recognize what they're putting together and add some diversity.

Honestly, I'm surprised they aren't going the New Avengers route (Iron Man, Spider-Man, Wolverine, and Cap; maybe throw in Hulk too... That would have made it easy to get Luke Cage, I guess...)

But the Avengers are a bad place to look for diversity of any sort. Black Panther has crushing loads of backstory and an unfortunate name, and you've got to go pretty deep to find another Avenger of Color (Triathalon? I guess you could go for a late-film reveal that it's actually Rhodey in the Iron Man suit...) And forget looking for any other ethnicities.

And Marvel itself has a profound lack of female characters, especially when you exclude knock-off versions of male characters (Spider-woman, She-Hulk) and characters strongly associated with teams other than the Avengers (Sue Storm, Storm, Kitty Pryde, Emma Frost, Rogue, etc.) There's Wasp (who adds little to a team with Ant-Man on it and would look exceptionally weak if they gave Hank the growth powers as well as the shrinking), Scarlet Witch (backstory issues again), Mockingbird (If they were willing to have non-powered Avengers, Hawkeye'd be on the list too), and then what?

I don't think 'Inventing Marvel's Wonder Woman' is really on the agenda for the creators of an Avengers movie.

The problem the filmmakers have is that they're picking up all these fortysome-year-old or older characters, who were all created at a time when the Lieutenant Marvels were the epitomy of diversity. They're afraid of a backlash if they stray too far from the original (IIRC, there was a lot of whispering when Ultimate Nick Fury was an African American, until people realized he looked like Samuel L. Jackson and thought that was kewl.)

At the same time, Black Panther and Monica Rambeau Captain Marvel were Avengers mainstays at various times, so I wouldn't have a problem with them appearing here. And Ant-Man had turned to Giant-Man before Captain America came on the scene, so if they cast Hank Pym as an African American, it could almost be like Black Goliath had joined the group.

On further consideration, we do have an almost thirty-year precedent of Garrett Morris as Ant-Man.

Hey, they could ditch Steve Rogers Cap in favor of "The Truth's" Isiah Bradley Captain America. That would be an interesting movie to say the least but I doubt Marvel has the balls to do it. Maybe they could do two movies about the same story and have Spike Lee direct one and Clint Eastwood do the other. Damn, that actually would be cool.

I think Snipe's Blade should be in the lineup. Make this like a movie version of the Marvel Ultimate Alliance video game where we create the team we want to play. Maybe Storm should be the new member. Wait, that is the Fantastic Four she was in. Hell, I am just glad Wolverine hasn't been added to this lineup (I know, they can't due to legal reasons but still...).

Maybe Loki will be black. I am sure no one would be upset about that. You know, the good guy Thor is white and his evil half brother is black. Yeah, that will fly.

Seriously, they chose the classic line up and what more can you do? I hate diversity for the sake of diversity. I live in a very diverse urban community that it is diverse because this town is attractive to people of all walks of life. But I would have hated to move here if I had to check a box for my racial background to see if I fit their intended diversity quotient.

At least they aren't making a superhero movie about a stereotypical dirty, surly and drunk bum with superpowers that also happens to be black. That's inconceivable.

re:#7

Greg, throwing in a black person just to "mix things up" is tokenism. Period. I will agree that the Wasp should be in there in some way, shape or form, but Luke Cage into the lineup for no reason other than "it's all white guys" hurts more than it helps.

That's the classic lineup right there. Fucking with that would be as if they cast Lucy Liu as Banner in the Hulk movie.

Charlie, my retort is that "Only featuring white men is racist and sexist, period". I'm not disputing the problem of tokenism. I'm only asserting that the starting point is not acceptable, either.

So, would a version of The Three Musketeers which failed to introduce a black and/or female Musketeer be 'racist and sexist, period', then?

In other words "this evil is unacceptable, but this evil is acceptable".

#14, Jeff, no, it's distinguishable for multiple reasons. First, the Three Musketeers is not a team-up of characters who have been independently featured. Second, the setting of the story is French history at a time when the country did not have a significant non-white population and at a time when women did not participate in the military. Cf. the Costner Robin Hood, with its problematic introduction of a Moorish character.

#15: Derek, that would appear to be an invidious rephrasing. If you're responding to my #13, then it's pretty clear that "the starting point is not acceptable, either" is not equivalent to "this evil is unacceptable, but this evil is acceptable".

The only female Marvel character to have been independently featured in the movies is, to my knowledge, Elektra. Would the prospective movie really be better with her in it?

As far as the comics version, there was literally nobody back when the book debuted, and if you exclude knockoff versions of male characters and characters strongly associated with another team, you pretty much still have nobody. Jessica Jones is literally the only one I can think of to have headlined a series. So who's the character who could headline a successful, profitable movie on her own and earn membership here?

Obviously, there's no reason why Ant Man has to be white.
Of course, protests from fan groups and black groups will come along, but it's Ant Man, who's frankly a hard sell to begin with. It needs a star name to really pull it off. (Unfortunately, Will Smith has done his superhero now).

Captain America...no way. I can hear the Bill O'Rielly rant already (and the Colbert mocking).

Thor's Norse...that's pretty much what you got.

Problem with adding, say, Black Panther, is that Marvel Studios likely doesn't have the rights to him (he was part of the Lion's Gate deal which I don't think has expired...but maybe it has).

Greg: I find your 3 Musketeers argument specious at best. Whether there were Porthos and Athos films before them, a 3M movie is still adapting the story Dumas wrote, just as Avengers will in someway be adapting what Stan Lee wrote. These are the characters they have to work with.

If you want to complain about non-white male characters not being successful in comics or to perhaps merit a solo film, that's really another topic.

Then add to that about the need for actors who can carry a movie of a lesser named hero.

A friend every so often likes to instant message me names that she thinks could carry a Wonder Woman film. As in, a female actress who has the cred to carry a 100 mil action tent pole film. Really other than Jolie, who comes to mind? (and the last Tomb Raider didn't do so hot..we'll see how Wanted does). And that's the most famous female super-hero. Now imagine trying to cast a Wasp film.

#13: So, have you got a solution that doesn't involve time travel? Because that's the only fix I'm seeing; go back in time, find Stan Lee, smack him in the back of the head and say "PUT A BLACK GUY ON THE TEAM!"

And then get arrested and dragged out of the Marvel offices for trespassing and assault, but that's another matter.

#18: Yeah, because its not like Hank Pym is white in the comics.

Wasp........you need someone who can play wiseass, but can get serious when the time comes........Sandra Bullock?

First off, I discard the notion that the movie featuring the Avengers, who have made a tradition out of varying membership, is required to have the initial 1963 lineup.

Or, more precisely, it's not required to have only the initial 1963 lineup.

Because that's what I'd actually do: Take the guys who have to be in the movie, and add a few other characters. Me, I'd certainly add the Wasp and probably the Black Widow and maybe a black Hawkeye. And probably try to make Wasp Asian or Hispanic.

In other words, make an Ultimates movie.

Greg: You do realize that you've set up a team in which all of the female and minority characters are orders of magnitude weaker/less powerful than the white guys?

My suspicion is that Marvel is going for the "solo movie first" requirement, and that this is creating something like the 1963 lineup for more or less the same reasons that the 1963 lineup was selected in the first place. And that's a good idea in general, since Hollywood can't get out of the trap in which any superheroic character introduced for the first time must devour at least 45 minutes of screen time in an origin, and the Avengers' quote will surely be more than filled by the villains.

If they're going to be true to the Avengers, they should be true to the Avengers. I want to see this movie like Avengers #1, set in 1963 with Iron Man in his golden armor and JFK as president--oh, wait, but there's no Captain America. Then Avengers #4, so we'll be in '64 with LBJ (and a possible cameo by the Beatles)--but then there's no Hulk, and Ant-Man is Giant-Man. OK, they can do Avengers #5, because who really cares whether we get Ant-Man or Giant-Man, but if the Avengers don't fight the Lava Men, all bets are off!!!

#22: Whether they admit it yet or not, the fact that they're including Ant-Man means they'll ultimately waive the "solo movie first" requirement.

Doug, believe it or not there's an Ant-Man movie in development for release in 2010. It's being directed by Edgar Wright of "Shawn of the Dead" and "Hot Fuzz" fame.

I believe it's in development, I just don't expect it to come to fruition as part of this Avengers roll out. Having Edgar Wright attached (and Simon Pegg as Hank Pym?) reinforces my own expectation that Ant-Man can only be played as comedy, but then how will that tone fit in with the two movies we've seen so far and the two to come? At this point no one can tell, but I just think that sometime between now and the projected 2011 release date of The Avengers, something somewhere simply breaks down.

#24 I thought that there was an Ant-Man movie being made by Edgar "Hot Fuzz" Wright? It is up on IMDB and I have read some interviews about it, too. It is pegged (sorry Simon) for 2010, which apparently is the "Year That Marvel Landed" since that is the next year that Marvel wants to flood the cineplex.

So it is clearly "Solo movie first" for the new Avengers team. Me, I am hoping for Irredeemable Ant Man. Wasn't he Asian? Is that enough diversity?

Irredeemable Ant Man was Irish-American. At least I assume he was -- he was a redhead named Eric O'Grady.

Fil, you may have been thinking of the All New Atom, who is from Hong Kong. Once they shrink to a certain size, I find it hard to tell those tiny superheroes apart without my reading glasses.

19: Yes, in the comics, Hank Pym is white. But of the remaining Avengers founders, being white isn't, for lack of a better term, part of his character.

Thor is a Viking god. That's really white.
Steve Rogers is the all-american kid from WW2, and at that time, that's gonna be someone white.

Hank Pym is a brilliant scientist. That can be anyone.

20: Certainly they can have lots of Avengers showing up...but how many til you have little more than glorified cameos, or characters trotted out for tokenism sake. The movie will be introducing the idea of a super team forming, whatever villains, SHIELD....you want to add origins for a few more heroes?

Didn't Henry Gyrich put Falcon on the team specifically to address this issue? And the Falcon was portrayed as feeling very much like a token addition.

I don't feel strongly about the film either way, but the issue seems like a pretty funny case of art-imitating-life-imitating-art (or something to that effect).

So, what about the early 1970s Falcon storyline, where Falcon gets put on the team to make the UN happy that the A's have a black dude in the starting lineup, but he decides he doesn't like the tokenism of it all and quits as soon as he can?

It'd be nifty if they faced the question head on...